Submissions

Contributors Name and/or E-mail	Category	Date	Posted to:	Comments:
Warren,warrenkm@vuse.vanderbilt.edu	For Sale	6-1-98	FOR SALE/WANTED	Item 1.
Andreas,av1@ix.netcom.com	E heli	6-22-98	INFORMATIVE E MAIL MESSAGES	Item 2
say6135@unix.tamu.edu	Gas Heli	7-14-98	FOR SALE/WANTED	Item 3

LV RCFlyer wrote:
>
> I had an older EP Concept a while back, but I was not pleased. On 7 1800 mah
> cells, all it did was hovered at full throttle. I want to tray again now
> though. Is all these E-Helis do is hover? Where's the forward flight,
> aerobatcis? Can they do em or not enough power stock? Thanks a lot...
>
> Jason
>
> https://www.angelfire.com/nv/RCFlying/index.html

Add another cell, a modified motor with a wind less than 15, micro
servos, take the gyro out, you will have a good sports helicopter that
will do circuits and mild aerobatics.

Phil......

LV RCFlyer wrote:
>
> I had an older EP Concept a while back, but I was not pleased. On 7 1800 mah
> cells, all it did was hovered at full throttle. I want to tray again now
> though. Is all these E-Helis do is hover? Where's the forward flight,
> aerobatcis? Can they do em or not enough power stock? Thanks a lot...
>
> Jason

Do a search on past posts on the ECO electric. I remember some posts indicating
it can do most of the common aerobatics. I am planning to get one due to what I
have read about it. I heard that the June 97 issue of MAN has a review and it
was favorable. I have not read it yet.

Dan

Hi, I have an EP SR and it flies well stock with 8 cells, and I don't
just mean that it hovers. - - I haven't tried inverted yet, but I've
seen it done on the original EP once upon a time.

Make sure that you're not using too much pitch otherwise you'll
just overload the motor. I changed tx's and found that all the
heli would do was hover - just, I inspected the engine/batteried etc
before I realised that I'd just screwed up the pitch curves.

Best luck
Ian

Phil Colbert wrote:
>
> LV RCFlyer wrote:
> >
> > I had an older EP Concept a while back, but I was not pleased. On 7 1800 mah
> > cells, all it did was hovered at full throttle. I want to tray again now
> > though. Is all these E-Helis do is hover? Where's the forward flight,
> > aerobatcis? Can they do em or not enough power stock? Thanks a lot...
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > https://www.angelfire.com/nv/RCFlying/index.html
>
> Add another cell, a modified motor with a wind less than 15, micro
> servos, take the gyro out, you will have a good sports helicopter that
> will do circuits and mild aerobatics.
>
> Phil......

No Spam wrote:
>
> A friend of mine was recently telling me about a new Kyosho electric heli
> that is supposed to be good for beginners. I've dabbled in all parts of the
> hobby except for helicopters because I felt they were too intimidating. The
> lack of collective control on this new heli is expected to cut cost and make
> things easier for the new comer.
>
> Does anyone have any info about or experience with either of the Kyosho
> electric Heli's? I'd love to hear it.
>
> Thanks for your time,
>
> John Lever
> jlever at scsn dot net

Dear John,

You are likely talking about Hyperfly.
If you are seriously considering to get into helis,
this is NOT the way to go. It has limited controls
so you probably are not going to learn anything
useful from it.
Electric (real) heli, like Kyosho Concept EP
is fun, but again, this is not the thing to learn on.
If you are thinking about Kyosho, consider Concept 30
or Nexus. These are fully featured machines so you
will learn something.

Best regards,
Boggie Gajdeczko
Engine Combustion Lab.
Princeton Univ.
boguslaw@puucc.princeton.edu

You are probably right about the concept 30 or nexus being easier to learn on,
but I have three of the Concept EP's, and tought myself to fly them, without
a simulator, so it is possible. They are lighter construction, and
more sensitive to wind. The fact that I can fly it in the cul-de-sac
at any time of day or night withough haveing to worry about noise, actually
motivated me more, and I've probably put in more practice than I would otherwise.
And you can get some reasonably priced scale bodies(hughes 500, jet ranger, and hughes 300for them) which I think is a plus, since I hate the pod and boom look, except when
it is a hughes 300.

Frank

In article <352D99A8.7346@phoenix.princeton.edu>,
Boguslaw Gajdeczko <boguslaw@phoenix.princeton.edu> wrote:
>No Spam wrote:
>>
>> A friend of mine was recently telling me about a new Kyosho electric heli
>> that is supposed to be good for beginners. I've dabbled in all parts of the
>> hobby except for helicopters because I felt they were too intimidating. The
>> lack of collective control on this new heli is expected to cut cost and make
>> things easier for the new comer.
>>
>> Does anyone have any info about or experience with either of the Kyosho
>> electric Heli's? I'd love to hear it.
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>>
>> John Lever
>> jlever at scsn dot net
>
>Dear John,
>
> You are likely talking about Hyperfly.
>If you are seriously considering to get into helis,
>this is NOT the way to go. It has limited controls
>so you probably are not going to learn anything
>useful from it.
> Electric (real) heli, like Kyosho Concept EP
>is fun, but again, this is not the thing to learn on.
>If you are thinking about Kyosho, consider Concept 30
>or Nexus. These are fully featured machines so you
>will learn something.
>
>Best regards,
>Boggie Gajdeczko
>Engine Combustion Lab.
>Princeton Univ.
>boguslaw@puucc.princeton.edu

Thanks for the feedback.

Unfortunately, the Hyperfly is not what I was referring to. If I'm not
mistaken, the Hyperfly "toy" has been around for several months now. What
I'm referring to is a new 'real' heli which may or may not be shipping yet

I have investigated both Gas and Electric. Gas is by no means an
impossibility. I have owned glow-fuel powered airplanes and cars for almost
5 years now. My primary reason for being interested in electric is because
it is much less messier, albeit meaning for shorter flights. The benefit of
being able to flight it in the neighborhood is just an added benefit.

If I can confirm any additional info on this new heli, I'll certainly pass
it on.
John

Boguslaw Gajdeczko wrote in message <352D99A8.7346@phoenix.princeton.edu>...

> You are likely talking about Hyperfly.
>If you are seriously considering to get into helis,
>this is NOT the way to go. It has limited controls
>so you probably are not going to learn anything
>useful from it.
> Electric (real) heli, like Kyosho Concept EP
>is fun, but again, this is not the thing to learn on.
>If you are thinking about Kyosho, consider Concept 30
>or Nexus. These are fully featured machines so you
>will learn something.

The newest one that they have out, but not in stock yet, is the EP concept Sports.
It is basically the Concept EP SR with the Hughes(schweizer) 300 body, but with
fixed pitch. You can aftermarket upgrade to adjustable pitch with parts.
It runs around $289, while the EP SR is $339, but it has the scale like body.
I don't know how well it would fly with fixed pitch, since on my EP's I have full
throttle at hover, and use pitch for altitude adjustment, If I put the speed
so it isn't at full throttle at hover pitch, the head rpm is slow, and it is sluggish.

Frank

In article <6gl5od$m10$1@usenet52.supernews.com>,
No Spam <propwash@nospam.org> wrote:
>Thanks for the feedback.
>
>Unfortunately, the Hyperfly is not what I was referring to. If I'm not
>mistaken, the Hyperfly "toy" has been around for several months now. What
>I'm referring to is a new 'real' heli which may or may not be shipping yet
>
>I have investigated both Gas and Electric. Gas is by no means an
>impossibility. I have owned glow-fuel powered airplanes and cars for almost
>5 years now. My primary reason for being interested in electric is because
>it is much less messier, albeit meaning for shorter flights. The benefit of
>being able to flight it in the neighborhood is just an added benefit.
>
>If I can confirm any additional info on this new heli, I'll certainly pass
>it on.
>John
>
>Boguslaw Gajdeczko wrote in message <352D99A8.7346@phoenix.princeton.edu>...
>
>> You are likely talking about Hyperfly.
>>If you are seriously considering to get into helis,
>>this is NOT the way to go. It has limited controls
>>so you probably are not going to learn anything
>>useful from it.
>> Electric (real) heli, like Kyosho Concept EP
>>is fun, but again, this is not the thing to learn on.
>>If you are thinking about Kyosho, consider Concept 30
>>or Nexus. These are fully featured machines so you
>>will learn something

Hobby Lobby says their ECO 8 can "burn holes in the sky" and climb like no heli you have
ever seen!

I fly an Ikarus ECO8 electric heli and use "can" motors such as the Ikarus
Performance motor, and lately, the Trinity Midnight Pro 2.

I'd been looking for "Electric Motors for Dummies" grade information without
much luck. I've acquired several of the basic electric flight books (such as
the Astroflight book), but I was still looking for information that would
help me understand the motors (and associated ESCs, batteries, etc.) I was
using, and help me understand what were the important issues of choosing
alternative motors, and I think I found it.

I put a query out on an R/C car newsgroup for motor info and got an
excellent response. Check the PK model racing site www.PKracing.NL It has
excellent info on motors and their design, operation, etc. and also great
info on batteries, controllers, etc. It is a model car racing site (I
believe they're in the Netherlands), but if you're into electric power, the
info is great.

Living Better Electrically with no EPA on my tail,
Guy Smith

Justin Burdine wrote:
>
> I am new to this sport so excuse this message if the topic is an old
> one, but could someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of an
> electric and a gas powered heli.
>
> I just moved into a house on a newly converted Naval Air Station and
> now have "huge" amounts of space perfect for a heli.!!
>
> Thanks,
> Justin Burdine

At 02:20 PM 6/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I am new to this sport so excuse this message if the topic is an old
>one

No apologise necessary.

>but could someone explain the advantages and disadvantages of an
>electric and a gas powered heli.

Electric heli advantages:

1) Quiet
2) Convenient
3) No mess
4) Less vibration

Electric heli disadvantages:

1) Heavier, lower power to weight
2) Less run time
3) Less maneuverable in most cases

Glow heli advantages:

1) Better power to weight
2) More maneuverable
3) Less expensive in most cases

Glow heli disadvantages:

1) More vibration
2) Messy
3) Requires more field support

Gasoline Heli advantages:

1) Less expensive to operate
2) More stable in windy condition
3) Less field support equipment

Gasoline Heli disadvantage:

1) Higher vibration level
2) Heavier
3) More expensive in most cases

I am sure there ar many others that I have forgotten. I am sure someone
else will be happy to fill in.;-)

Hansen

Hello Justin:
In Electric heli's vs gas there is no contest. You can't learn to fly
heli's using an electric.   The only advantage to an electric heli is no
noise.
It flies max 5-8 min on a charge. If you are an expenienced flyer.
So buy gas and learn and then if you want to try electric, ok.   And don't
fall for that Koysho hyperfly pc of junk.
   Don H

Electrics have a short duration and are fragile with less overall
performance than glow(methanol/oil fueled). Electrics require charging gear
and several expensive packs but they are very quiet. Gas by its very name
burns gasoline/oil mixture like a weed eater. It has good power but is
heavier than glow thus lacks some aerobatic edge. Gas is the cheapest to
operate, is the most reliable and most convenient. Because it is heavier it
is more stable than glow. Glow is most popular then comes gas followed by
electric. Starting out I'd pick a small glow machine to keep repair costs
down because you wallet and time may be smaller than your house! Look
around your area to see what the locals recommend so help is close. Ask
lots of questions...the only really stupid question is the one you didn't ask.

SB

>I fly an Ikarus ECO8 electric heli and use "can" motors such as the Ikarus
>Performance motor, and lately, the Trinity Midnight Pro 2.
>

Hy Justin

I'll take a crack at this since I fly both electric and liquid powered
heli's. Conventional Liquid powered heli's (Gas/Petrol or Nitro
methanol/glow) offer good power, and flight time and are very practical
in that it these fuels offer a lot of energy for the weight. Gas offers
much better fuel economy, while glow/methanol offers lower weight and
therefore more agility. Both smoke, and make you go home smelling bad.
Electric heli's make no smoke usually, and don't give off foul odors
and are very very inexpensive to operate, even compared to Gas/Petrol,
but are much more "design challenged". Battery's have a much lower
amount of energy per ounce, so you usually trade off flight time or
performance, or both. Very good design and high technology go a long
ways towards closing the gap, but has a long way to go. A couple of
examples of pretty good electric heli's are the Ikarus ECO, and the
Mikado LOGO. Both can be seen on my heli web Page at
http://www.rcaviation.com/oarcwg/heli/index.html
another example is the Vario Silence and there are others. There have
also been some that have been around that perform marginally and have
given electric's a bad name. Electric heli's are much more popular in
Europe, than in the US or the rest of the world because of europes
stricter standards with regards to noise, and pollution. They may become
more popular in the US for the same reasons. I can fly mine in my
neighborhood without the neighbors complaining. For the beginner,
Glow/Gas heli's are probably a better choice, at least in the USA.

My two cents
Richard

> Hello all,
>
> Just finished some more flights on my Hyperfly. Great fun to say the least!
> It only needs a baseball field sized place to fly comfortably at. Well, I am
> a little dissapointed with the durations though. Motor is the standard (Not
> BB) AP-29. I use the 6 cell packs of 1100 mahs made just for the Hyper. Even
> with throttling back, I can only max out near 3-4 minutes. I need to do
> something to give me more flight time!! First I want to try different packs
> of cells. Can someone please tell me the max amps the AP-29 can handle? I
> dont want to kill the thing. I think 8 800 mah cells, or maybe 7 600 mah
> cells will help....anyone have any ideas?

Increasing the amps isn't going to increase your flight time, it's going
to decrease it. If the thing flies well on 6 cells, then use 6 cells, but
of a higher capacity. For example, 1250SCR or even 1400SCR. Of course, it'll
be heavier then, so it might not fly so well.

You COULD go to more cells of a lower capacity and throttle back to get
the flight times back up, but as you get to the lower capacity cells, your
energy density (Wh/lb) goes down.

Stefan

It have a concept ep with an Astro 05 heli motor.
It flies well, hovers stable.
My practice runs are always in the 10 minute range.
I use a CSM Heading Lock gyro.

I also had an Eco 8, which was my first heli.
I burnt out the Eco Sport motor ( it's a rip off, use
a warlock speed demon for less than half the price)
and finally sold it.
My perception in comparison to the Ep is that the Eco
is LESS stable in hover.

I just converted a Hyperfly to tailrotor
and did a few test spin ups...felt good.

I use a Robbe Power 400 6v on 6 500AR cells.
This is a true indoor heli.

More later

Andreas

For Sale:
ECO 8 heli fully assembled with sport motor and heli speed controller
4 hitek micro servos
1700 mAh 9.6 V pack
1900 mAh 9.6 V-pack
Futaba Micro Gyro
Futaba 6VH radio (includes 4xs148 servos, 1000mAh btr pack)

only minor boo boos (boom strike) and everything has been replaced at the
first sign of wear so this one is like new. Includes all manuals/boxes.
Asking $520 for all.

Kevin

I am offering this heli
complete and ready to fly with everything you need less fuel. I am looking
to get at least $850 for all of it. The package includes:

Concept 60SR W/Sport Blades

OS SX-H .61 Engine (started two times)
JR XF-642 6 Channel Computer radio w/ 5BB servos
JR AMP-130 Rate Gyro
HeliMax Tuned Muffler
Hobbico TorqueMaster Starter
Great Planes Blue Annodized Ni-starter
Remote glow adaptor
extra frame parts
tons of accessories (little stuff like tie rod ends and ball joints)
Aluminum Clutch & Starter cone
All Manuals

$900 obo